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	<title>Comments on: More About New Kinds of Online Debates</title>
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		<title>By: Die Zukunft des &#8220;Hochrisikofernsehens&#8221;? &#171; Internet und Politik</title>
		<link>http://citmedia.org/blog/2007/11/11/more-about-new-kinds-of-online-debates/comment-page-1/#comment-2141</link>
		<dc:creator>Die Zukunft des &#8220;Hochrisikofernsehens&#8221;? &#171; Internet und Politik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2008 23:04:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://citmedia.org/blog/2007/11/11/more-about-new-kinds-of-online-debates/#comment-2141</guid>
		<description>[...] Einen Schritt weiter geht das Angebot 10questions.com, das die Debatte im November und Dezember 2007 vollständig in den digitalen Kommunikationsraum verlegt hatte. Organisiert wurde das Projekt federführend von der Info-Website techpresident.com. Zunächst konnten Nutzer in zwei Runden Videoclips mit Fragen an die Kandidaten einstellen, die danach von den Onlinern bewertet und so in eine Reihenfolge gebracht wurden. Die zehn am besten bewerteten Fragen wurden schließlich an die Kandidaten weiter geleitet, die innerhalb einer festgelegten Frist antworten konnten - die Kampagnen-Teams produzierten dann ihrerseits kurze Videoclips, die über 10questions.com bereit gestellt wurden (weitere Überlegungen zur Ausgestaltung von Online-Debatten finden sich hier). [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Einen Schritt weiter geht das Angebot 10questions.com, das die Debatte im November und Dezember 2007 vollständig in den digitalen Kommunikationsraum verlegt hatte. Organisiert wurde das Projekt federführend von der Info-Website techpresident.com. Zunächst konnten Nutzer in zwei Runden Videoclips mit Fragen an die Kandidaten einstellen, die danach von den Onlinern bewertet und so in eine Reihenfolge gebracht wurden. Die zehn am besten bewerteten Fragen wurden schließlich an die Kandidaten weiter geleitet, die innerhalb einer festgelegten Frist antworten konnten &#8211; die Kampagnen-Teams produzierten dann ihrerseits kurze Videoclips, die über 10questions.com bereit gestellt wurden (weitere Überlegungen zur Ausgestaltung von Online-Debatten finden sich hier). [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Guha Jayachandran</title>
		<link>http://citmedia.org/blog/2007/11/11/more-about-new-kinds-of-online-debates/comment-page-1/#comment-2140</link>
		<dc:creator>Guha Jayachandran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 19:25:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://citmedia.org/blog/2007/11/11/more-about-new-kinds-of-online-debates/#comment-2140</guid>
		<description>I just came across this post, and wanted to let you know about Cruxlux -- http://www.cruxlux.com/ . This is a site that&#039;s been in public soft launch for several months now and is now ramping up with much more use and &quot;marketing.&quot; It has virtually everything you all have described. Among the highlights:

- For any assertion, it displays supports and counterarguments to that assertion. The intuitive display prevents people from talking past each other and cuts through any spin.

- It has sophisticated credibility systems that prevent vandalism and move the top ranked arguments of each side to the top.

- It allows challenges to be issued to any other members or groups on the site, or to any outside bloggers. We also ourselves are in the process of inviting presidential campaigns to join in on various issues.

- Other features you can see for yourself on the site.

I hope you all take a moment to check it out and sign up, and please do give us any feedback you may have through the Contact link on the site. We really want to be of service and to help elevate the discourse (or at least expose people who are unwilling or unable to back up their views). Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just came across this post, and wanted to let you know about Cruxlux &#8212; <a href="http://www.cruxlux.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.cruxlux.com/</a> . This is a site that&#8217;s been in public soft launch for several months now and is now ramping up with much more use and &#8220;marketing.&#8221; It has virtually everything you all have described. Among the highlights:</p>
<p>- For any assertion, it displays supports and counterarguments to that assertion. The intuitive display prevents people from talking past each other and cuts through any spin.</p>
<p>- It has sophisticated credibility systems that prevent vandalism and move the top ranked arguments of each side to the top.</p>
<p>- It allows challenges to be issued to any other members or groups on the site, or to any outside bloggers. We also ourselves are in the process of inviting presidential campaigns to join in on various issues.</p>
<p>- Other features you can see for yourself on the site.</p>
<p>I hope you all take a moment to check it out and sign up, and please do give us any feedback you may have through the Contact link on the site. We really want to be of service and to help elevate the discourse (or at least expose people who are unwilling or unable to back up their views). Thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: Center for Citizen Media: Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Using Tech to Improve Political Debates</title>
		<link>http://citmedia.org/blog/2007/11/11/more-about-new-kinds-of-online-debates/comment-page-1/#comment-2139</link>
		<dc:creator>Center for Citizen Media: Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Using Tech to Improve Political Debates</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 18:36:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://citmedia.org/blog/2007/11/11/more-about-new-kinds-of-online-debates/#comment-2139</guid>
		<description>[...] New Legal Threats Database for Citizen Media Creators More About New Kinds of Online Debates [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] New Legal Threats Database for Citizen Media Creators More About New Kinds of Online Debates [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jon Garfunkel</title>
		<link>http://citmedia.org/blog/2007/11/11/more-about-new-kinds-of-online-debates/comment-page-1/#comment-2138</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Garfunkel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2007 13:14:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://citmedia.org/blog/2007/11/11/more-about-new-kinds-of-online-debates/#comment-2138</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d also be jazzed if every A-List blogger were to have an indicator whether he was online and up for a challenge. And blog readers could come up and request a challenge when they want to argue the big shot in real-time over chat. That would be fun.

And suppose this works-- in probably wouldn&#039;t escalate immediately to Presidential campaigns, but it could to smaller contests.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d also be jazzed if every A-List blogger were to have an indicator whether he was online and up for a challenge. And blog readers could come up and request a challenge when they want to argue the big shot in real-time over chat. That would be fun.</p>
<p>And suppose this works&#8211; in probably wouldn&#8217;t escalate immediately to Presidential campaigns, but it could to smaller contests.</p>
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		<title>By: Noel</title>
		<link>http://citmedia.org/blog/2007/11/11/more-about-new-kinds-of-online-debates/comment-page-1/#comment-2132</link>
		<dc:creator>Noel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2007 07:35:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://citmedia.org/blog/2007/11/11/more-about-new-kinds-of-online-debates/#comment-2132</guid>
		<description>I think that Jon has touched on the key point that the it&#039;s the architecture of the blogosphere that doesn&#039;t encourage many fair debates.  While I do not agree that the 2004 campaign was remarkable different than the 2000 campaign in terms of the level of debate, I do think that it may be possible, with better architecture to create an online platform for debate that could offer those citizens who are looking either to engage in debate or two observe a debate as it unfolds over time to do so.  I think you&#039;re basically right to say that the majority of Americans are not interested in parsing through dense policy discussions between candidates, which is why there might always be only a limited appeal to  these online debates, but I do think devising a way foster online debate is nonetheless a worthwhile endeavor, even if in the end the debate sites don&#039;t end up among the most popular sites on the web.

I do think, though, that it&#039;s important not to confuse a tool for archiving debates, like Debatepedia, and a platform for debate itself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that Jon has touched on the key point that the it&#8217;s the architecture of the blogosphere that doesn&#8217;t encourage many fair debates.  While I do not agree that the 2004 campaign was remarkable different than the 2000 campaign in terms of the level of debate, I do think that it may be possible, with better architecture to create an online platform for debate that could offer those citizens who are looking either to engage in debate or two observe a debate as it unfolds over time to do so.  I think you&#8217;re basically right to say that the majority of Americans are not interested in parsing through dense policy discussions between candidates, which is why there might always be only a limited appeal to  these online debates, but I do think devising a way foster online debate is nonetheless a worthwhile endeavor, even if in the end the debate sites don&#8217;t end up among the most popular sites on the web.</p>
<p>I do think, though, that it&#8217;s important not to confuse a tool for archiving debates, like Debatepedia, and a platform for debate itself.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon Garfunkel</title>
		<link>http://citmedia.org/blog/2007/11/11/more-about-new-kinds-of-online-debates/comment-page-1/#comment-2137</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Garfunkel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2007 04:59:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://citmedia.org/blog/2007/11/11/more-about-new-kinds-of-online-debates/#comment-2137</guid>
		<description>Brooks-- I debated for my school&#039;s APDA team in college a dozen years ago and took away one basic lesson: Dropped points count in debate (and nowhere else). The Debatepedia project is interesting. But I suppose that Wikipedia itself is an order of magnitude for partisans of all stripes to edit. As Seth can go into gory depth, the edit wars (not to mention the inclusion skirmishes) are what brings the attention to Wikipedia.

Suppose that 10% of the voting population will at least partly vote on the candidate based on the issues and not on, say, his hair. Well, they&#039;re listening to NPR, or reading the New Yorker or some similar dense material. It&#039;s been very tough to out-smart the &quot;high&quot; media. So the winning strategy online has been to out-shout.

Compare the Internet coverage of the Presidential election between 2000 and 2004. In the former election, there was a lot of foundation money poured into various nonpartisan deliberative democracy efforts. We know what happened next-- to quote Jay Rosen (in all seriousness), &quot;George Bush singlehandedly probably did more to rejuvenate democracy.&quot; And what a difference four years makes: 2004 brought out a new breed of netizens as partisan snipers. I&#039;m not saying that&#039;s bad; I&#039;m not being cynical. That&#039;s what worked. I can&#039;t see deliberative democracy being restored to political campaigns anytime soon. I can see it added to governance somewhat.

Back to my original (dropped!) point. I don&#039;t think the American public is looking for the candidates to explain in gory detail their health plans, or give away their diplomatic strategy in debates. What they (we) are looking for is &lt;i&gt;grace under pressure&lt;/i&gt;. For better or worse, the entrenched press is in the best position to try and get candidates to sweat. Keep the basic format, but build in an audience-participation system where enough viewers can agree to give an electric shock to a BS&#039;ing candidate.

That said, I do look forward to a &quot;debatosphere&quot; of ordinary folks debating online in realtime. That could be entertaining and informative. As Seth and I have noted, the architecture of the blogosphere today doesn&#039;t encourage many fair debates.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brooks&#8211; I debated for my school&#8217;s APDA team in college a dozen years ago and took away one basic lesson: Dropped points count in debate (and nowhere else). The Debatepedia project is interesting. But I suppose that Wikipedia itself is an order of magnitude for partisans of all stripes to edit. As Seth can go into gory depth, the edit wars (not to mention the inclusion skirmishes) are what brings the attention to Wikipedia.</p>
<p>Suppose that 10% of the voting population will at least partly vote on the candidate based on the issues and not on, say, his hair. Well, they&#8217;re listening to NPR, or reading the New Yorker or some similar dense material. It&#8217;s been very tough to out-smart the &#8220;high&#8221; media. So the winning strategy online has been to out-shout.</p>
<p>Compare the Internet coverage of the Presidential election between 2000 and 2004. In the former election, there was a lot of foundation money poured into various nonpartisan deliberative democracy efforts. We know what happened next&#8211; to quote Jay Rosen (in all seriousness), &#8220;George Bush singlehandedly probably did more to rejuvenate democracy.&#8221; And what a difference four years makes: 2004 brought out a new breed of netizens as partisan snipers. I&#8217;m not saying that&#8217;s bad; I&#8217;m not being cynical. That&#8217;s what worked. I can&#8217;t see deliberative democracy being restored to political campaigns anytime soon. I can see it added to governance somewhat.</p>
<p>Back to my original (dropped!) point. I don&#8217;t think the American public is looking for the candidates to explain in gory detail their health plans, or give away their diplomatic strategy in debates. What they (we) are looking for is <i>grace under pressure</i>. For better or worse, the entrenched press is in the best position to try and get candidates to sweat. Keep the basic format, but build in an audience-participation system where enough viewers can agree to give an electric shock to a BS&#8217;ing candidate.</p>
<p>That said, I do look forward to a &#8220;debatosphere&#8221; of ordinary folks debating online in realtime. That could be entertaining and informative. As Seth and I have noted, the architecture of the blogosphere today doesn&#8217;t encourage many fair debates.</p>
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		<title>By: Noel</title>
		<link>http://citmedia.org/blog/2007/11/11/more-about-new-kinds-of-online-debates/comment-page-1/#comment-2136</link>
		<dc:creator>Noel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Nov 2007 19:09:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://citmedia.org/blog/2007/11/11/more-about-new-kinds-of-online-debates/#comment-2136</guid>
		<description>Actually, when IDEA launched Debatepedia (I&#039;m the president of the IDEA, inc. Board of Directors) is was with the thought of providing a web site that would collect arguments.  Debatepedia is not really well suited for a debate like the one you describe, in part because what you describe is more like a traditional debate which has a flow that includes speeches that respond to one another.  There are some interesting models of online debate right now that could potentially be developed into good platforms for online debate.  One very promising one is convinceme.net, though the abundance of battle metaphors on the site is unfortunate.  The Economist has also recently launched a series of online debates that aspires a bit to what&#039;s described above, but the software they&#039;re using is a bit rudimentary.

We&#039;re hoping, though, that the Economist will give us permission to archive their debates on the Debatabase and add links to research on the issues the debaters and general public make during the debates.

IDEA is hoping to launch a companion site in the coming months to the Debatepedia in the coming months that will use some more robust Web 2.0 tools than the MediaWiki to allow for debates like the ones you describe above.  We&#039;re going to try to improve on the work that Convinceme.net and some others are doing, in part by providing a platform for public online debate that will link debaters to the argument prompts and evidence that&#039;s provided in places like Debatapedia.  Our goal would be to have online debaters create content that would then be archived in Debatapedia.

Another interesting tool for archiving debates, by the way, is Debatemapper.com.  We are working with the founders of that site to hopefully create an open source equivalent and also a desktop version of that software so people can create maps of debates on their own.  The argument maps that software like this provide can be very useful tools.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, when IDEA launched Debatepedia (I&#8217;m the president of the IDEA, inc. Board of Directors) is was with the thought of providing a web site that would collect arguments.  Debatepedia is not really well suited for a debate like the one you describe, in part because what you describe is more like a traditional debate which has a flow that includes speeches that respond to one another.  There are some interesting models of online debate right now that could potentially be developed into good platforms for online debate.  One very promising one is convinceme.net, though the abundance of battle metaphors on the site is unfortunate.  The Economist has also recently launched a series of online debates that aspires a bit to what&#8217;s described above, but the software they&#8217;re using is a bit rudimentary.</p>
<p>We&#8217;re hoping, though, that the Economist will give us permission to archive their debates on the Debatabase and add links to research on the issues the debaters and general public make during the debates.</p>
<p>IDEA is hoping to launch a companion site in the coming months to the Debatepedia in the coming months that will use some more robust Web 2.0 tools than the MediaWiki to allow for debates like the ones you describe above.  We&#8217;re going to try to improve on the work that Convinceme.net and some others are doing, in part by providing a platform for public online debate that will link debaters to the argument prompts and evidence that&#8217;s provided in places like Debatapedia.  Our goal would be to have online debaters create content that would then be archived in Debatapedia.</p>
<p>Another interesting tool for archiving debates, by the way, is Debatemapper.com.  We are working with the founders of that site to hopefully create an open source equivalent and also a desktop version of that software so people can create maps of debates on their own.  The argument maps that software like this provide can be very useful tools.</p>
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		<title>By: Brooks Lindsay</title>
		<link>http://citmedia.org/blog/2007/11/11/more-about-new-kinds-of-online-debates/comment-page-1/#comment-2135</link>
		<dc:creator>Brooks Lindsay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Nov 2007 16:55:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://citmedia.org/blog/2007/11/11/more-about-new-kinds-of-online-debates/#comment-2135</guid>
		<description>For a look at Debatepedia&#039;s 2008 elections coverage (roughly 30 debates) see the following link. We&#039;re trying to really push this resource forward as something of an ultimate voter guide (not there yet); a way for voters to see all the arguments (so they can draw their own conclusions) and to see all the candidates positions (so they judge their ideal candidate).

http://wiki.idebate.org/index.php/Category:2008_US_presidential_elections</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For a look at Debatepedia&#8217;s 2008 elections coverage (roughly 30 debates) see the following link. We&#8217;re trying to really push this resource forward as something of an ultimate voter guide (not there yet); a way for voters to see all the arguments (so they can draw their own conclusions) and to see all the candidates positions (so they judge their ideal candidate).</p>
<p><a href="http://wiki.idebate.org/index.php/Category:2008_US_presidential_elections" rel="nofollow">http://wiki.idebate.org/index.php/Category:2008_US_presidential_elections</a></p>
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		<title>By: Brooks Lindsay</title>
		<link>http://citmedia.org/blog/2007/11/11/more-about-new-kinds-of-online-debates/comment-page-1/#comment-2134</link>
		<dc:creator>Brooks Lindsay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Nov 2007 16:22:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://citmedia.org/blog/2007/11/11/more-about-new-kinds-of-online-debates/#comment-2134</guid>
		<description>Seth, I disagree. While verbal debate is very important as you say, the internet offers something very important, which is the ability to utilize the written word in fully documenting debates and arguments. We offer Debatepedia as a means to frame really tough debates/questions, aiming to document the pro/con threads of arguments and all of the supporting evidence, quotes, studies, etc that fall within these argument threads. This is within an easily understood pro/con structure. This written form offers the potential for a deeper dissection and expansion of debates, opposed to solely verbal forms.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seth, I disagree. While verbal debate is very important as you say, the internet offers something very important, which is the ability to utilize the written word in fully documenting debates and arguments. We offer Debatepedia as a means to frame really tough debates/questions, aiming to document the pro/con threads of arguments and all of the supporting evidence, quotes, studies, etc that fall within these argument threads. This is within an easily understood pro/con structure. This written form offers the potential for a deeper dissection and expansion of debates, opposed to solely verbal forms.</p>
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		<title>By: John Robinson</title>
		<link>http://citmedia.org/blog/2007/11/11/more-about-new-kinds-of-online-debates/comment-page-1/#comment-2133</link>
		<dc:creator>John Robinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Nov 2007 13:25:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://citmedia.org/blog/2007/11/11/more-about-new-kinds-of-online-debates/#comment-2133</guid>
		<description>It would work. We&#039;re going to try &lt;a href=&quot;http://blog.news-record.com/staff/jrblog/2007/11/allen_johnson_w_1.shtml&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;something like it&lt;/a&gt; on a local level in Greensboro.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It would work. We&#8217;re going to try <a href="http://blog.news-record.com/staff/jrblog/2007/11/allen_johnson_w_1.shtml" rel="nofollow">something like it</a> on a local level in Greensboro.</p>
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