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	<title>Comments on: Distributed Journalism Conversation at Pressthink, Bloggercon</title>
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		<title>By: Seth Finkelstein</title>
		<link>http://citmedia.org/blog/2006/06/18/distributed-journalism-conversation-at-pressthink-bloggercon/comment-page-1/#comment-275</link>
		<dc:creator>Seth Finkelstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jun 2006 07:33:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Eric, note what I said above, about the importance of distinguishing &quot;asking experts&quot; vs. &quot;grunt labor&quot;. The article you note is a fine example of &quot;asking experts&quot;, which I think is an extremely praiseworthy endeavor. That&#039;s very different from building castles in the air regarding how wonderful it would be to farm out drudgery. Using the term &quot;citizen journalism&quot; for both of these wildly different categories can lead to much confusion.

Most importantly, &quot;asking experts&quot; requires promoting humility and openness on the part of professional journalists - again, an extremely worthy task, and I commend Dan&#039;s efforts in that direction. But it&#039;s a matter of engaging with those in power, and saying they should be humble. There&#039;s a potential for push-back there.  Whereas &quot;grunt labor&quot; can have very dubious aspects of preying on ordinary people&#039;s frustrations and powerlessness, for a marketeer&#039;s benefit. There&#039;s not much check on the down side of hype and overselling.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eric, note what I said above, about the importance of distinguishing &#8220;asking experts&#8221; vs. &#8220;grunt labor&#8221;. The article you note is a fine example of &#8220;asking experts&#8221;, which I think is an extremely praiseworthy endeavor. That&#8217;s very different from building castles in the air regarding how wonderful it would be to farm out drudgery. Using the term &#8220;citizen journalism&#8221; for both of these wildly different categories can lead to much confusion.</p>
<p>Most importantly, &#8220;asking experts&#8221; requires promoting humility and openness on the part of professional journalists &#8211; again, an extremely worthy task, and I commend Dan&#8217;s efforts in that direction. But it&#8217;s a matter of engaging with those in power, and saying they should be humble. There&#8217;s a potential for push-back there.  Whereas &#8220;grunt labor&#8221; can have very dubious aspects of preying on ordinary people&#8217;s frustrations and powerlessness, for a marketeer&#8217;s benefit. There&#8217;s not much check on the down side of hype and overselling.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Eldon</title>
		<link>http://citmedia.org/blog/2006/06/18/distributed-journalism-conversation-at-pressthink-bloggercon/comment-page-1/#comment-274</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Eldon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jun 2006 20:35:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://citmedia.org/blog/2006/06/18/distributed-journalism-conversation-at-pressthink-bloggercon/#comment-274</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s a news organization that has successfully integrated participation from readers - for free.

http://www.current.org/news/news0608skoler.shtml

Two market returns for readers:

- Each reader has the opportunity to get the information covered that they think is important. Especially for readers with causes, the benefits from coverage can be huge. Think: an article vs. paid advertising, ringing doorbells, gathering petition signatures, etc....

- Each reader who does get their information covered may personally benefit from the resulting fame (that classic greed/lust factor that motivates many people to action).

Social networks don&#039;t centrally aggregate readers and information -- there&#039;s no MySpace user-produced news aggregation site, for example -- because privacy and invidual connections are the focus. News organizations are in an ideal situation to fill this hole.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s a news organization that has successfully integrated participation from readers &#8211; for free.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.current.org/news/news0608skoler.shtml" rel="nofollow">http://www.current.org/news/news0608skoler.shtml</a></p>
<p>Two market returns for readers:</p>
<p>- Each reader has the opportunity to get the information covered that they think is important. Especially for readers with causes, the benefits from coverage can be huge. Think: an article vs. paid advertising, ringing doorbells, gathering petition signatures, etc&#8230;.</p>
<p>- Each reader who does get their information covered may personally benefit from the resulting fame (that classic greed/lust factor that motivates many people to action).</p>
<p>Social networks don&#8217;t centrally aggregate readers and information &#8212; there&#8217;s no MySpace user-produced news aggregation site, for example &#8212; because privacy and invidual connections are the focus. News organizations are in an ideal situation to fill this hole.</p>
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		<title>By: Atrium - Media e Cidadania &#187; Blog Archive &#187; &#8220;Users-Know-More-than-We-Do Journalism&#8221;</title>
		<link>http://citmedia.org/blog/2006/06/18/distributed-journalism-conversation-at-pressthink-bloggercon/comment-page-1/#comment-273</link>
		<dc:creator>Atrium - Media e Cidadania &#187; Blog Archive &#187; &#8220;Users-Know-More-than-We-Do Journalism&#8221;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jun 2006 18:00:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://citmedia.org/blog/2006/06/18/distributed-journalism-conversation-at-pressthink-bloggercon/#comment-273</guid>
		<description>[...] Antecipando a sua participa&#231;&#227;o na BloggerCon deste ano (de que j&#225; aqui fal&#225;mos), Jay Rosen acaba de publicar o texto que p&#245;e a debate, este &quot;Users-Know-More-than-We-Do Journalism&quot;. A sua proposta &#233; simples - se os meios est&#227;o dispon&#237;veis e se a &#039;capacidade instalada&#039; para produzir informa&#231;&#227;o de forma alternativa (Open Source Journalism) &#233; cada vez maior, ent&#227;o o que &#233; preciso para que isso aconte&#231;a? O momento - alega Rosen - &#233; este: &quot;I see it as a &#8220;put up or shut up&#8221; moment for open source methods in public interest reporting&quot;. Numa das muitas respostas ao desafio, Dan Gillmor escreveu:&quot;The answer is absolutely&quot;.  Explore posts in the same categories: Internet, Conferências, Jornalismo Digital [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Antecipando a sua participa&ccedil;&atilde;o na BloggerCon deste ano (de que j&aacute; aqui fal&aacute;mos), Jay Rosen acaba de publicar o texto que p&otilde;e a debate, este &quot;Users-Know-More-than-We-Do Journalism&quot;. A sua proposta &eacute; simples &#8211; se os meios est&atilde;o dispon&iacute;veis e se a &#39;capacidade instalada&#39; para produzir informa&ccedil;&atilde;o de forma alternativa (Open Source Journalism) &eacute; cada vez maior, ent&atilde;o o que &eacute; preciso para que isso aconte&ccedil;a? O momento &#8211; alega Rosen &#8211; &eacute; este: &quot;I see it as a &ldquo;put up or shut up&rdquo; moment for open source methods in public interest reporting&quot;. Numa das muitas respostas ao desafio, Dan Gillmor escreveu:&quot;The answer is absolutely&quot;.  Explore posts in the same categories: Internet, Conferências, Jornalismo Digital [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Seth Finkelstein</title>
		<link>http://citmedia.org/blog/2006/06/18/distributed-journalism-conversation-at-pressthink-bloggercon/comment-page-1/#comment-272</link>
		<dc:creator>Seth Finkelstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jun 2006 05:55:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://citmedia.org/blog/2006/06/18/distributed-journalism-conversation-at-pressthink-bloggercon/#comment-272</guid>
		<description>Make it &quot;grunt labor&quot; if you find the phrase &quot;slave labor&quot; to be too harsh. Nonetheless, the basic remains that generating large amount of volunteerism for drudgery, is problematic in a market economy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Make it &#8220;grunt labor&#8221; if you find the phrase &#8220;slave labor&#8221; to be too harsh. Nonetheless, the basic remains that generating large amount of volunteerism for drudgery, is problematic in a market economy.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Gillmor</title>
		<link>http://citmedia.org/blog/2006/06/18/distributed-journalism-conversation-at-pressthink-bloggercon/comment-page-1/#comment-271</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Gillmor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jun 2006 00:05:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://citmedia.org/blog/2006/06/18/distributed-journalism-conversation-at-pressthink-bloggercon/#comment-271</guid>
		<description>Huge numbers of people volunteer for things every day, including things that are making money for someone else. They see some value apart from pay. They definitely aren&#039;t slaves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Huge numbers of people volunteer for things every day, including things that are making money for someone else. They see some value apart from pay. They definitely aren&#8217;t slaves.</p>
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		<title>By: Seth Finkelstein</title>
		<link>http://citmedia.org/blog/2006/06/18/distributed-journalism-conversation-at-pressthink-bloggercon/comment-page-1/#comment-270</link>
		<dc:creator>Seth Finkelstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jun 2006 16:39:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://citmedia.org/blog/2006/06/18/distributed-journalism-conversation-at-pressthink-bloggercon/#comment-270</guid>
		<description>You really should distinguish between:

1) Asking experts to fact-check an article in their field - generally a small task, easily delegated to a grad student or similar.

2) Postulating huge number of people are going to work for free, doing somebody else&#039;s slave labor.

I understand why #2 is great if you can make it happen - but really, it&#039;s a lot easier said than done (and some of the ways to do it are ethically dubious).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You really should distinguish between:</p>
<p>1) Asking experts to fact-check an article in their field &#8211; generally a small task, easily delegated to a grad student or similar.</p>
<p>2) Postulating huge number of people are going to work for free, doing somebody else&#8217;s slave labor.</p>
<p>I understand why #2 is great if you can make it happen &#8211; but really, it&#8217;s a lot easier said than done (and some of the ways to do it are ethically dubious).</p>
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